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| Mythography Forums > Greek Mythology > Elenos In Sheria (corfu) And Zeus Kassopai |
| Posted by: Kassios December 11, 2005 | 12:57 GMT |
| Does anyone know the story of Elenos, son of Priamos, Kassandras twin brother, particularly the part of the story when he went to Kassiope harbour in NE Sheria (now Corfu) where the great temple of Zeus Kassopaios was? Also is there anything about Zeus Kassopaios and the city of Kassiope, now 'Kassiopi'? I'm talking about the one in Corfu, not Kassiope in Epirus. All I know is that the temple of Zeus Kassopaios was knocked down by the early Christians, who then used material of that temple to build the Virgin Mary church on top of it. Pls give as many references as possible, I will very much appreciate it, thanks. |
| Posted by: Vlad December 11, 2005 | 14:22 GMT |
| From Apollodorus - "The Library of Greek Mythology" (dated between 2nd c. BCE and 2nd c. AC), issued 1997 by Oxford University Press in a new translation by Robin Hard : - /p.125/ - Helenos, second son of Hecuba and Priam, after Deiphobos. /p.155 onwards/ - "After the death of Alexander /i.e. Paris/, Helenos and Deiphobos quarelled over Helen`s hand; and because Deiphobos was preferred, Helenos left Troy and went to live on Mt.Ida. But when Calchas declared that Helenos had knowledge of the oracles that protected the city, Odysseus captured him in an ambush and brought him to the camp; and Helenos was forced to reveal how Ilion could be captured. This could be achieved if, in the first place, the bones of Pelops were brought to the Greeks, and then if Neoptolemos fought as their ally, and thirdly, if the Palladion (which had fallen from heaven) was stolen from Troy - for while it remained inside the walls, the city was impregnable. " /p.160/ "...Neoptolemos travelled by land to the country of the Molossians, accompanied by Helenos. Along the way, Phoenix died and Neoptolemos buried him. He became king of the Molossians after defeating them in battle, and had a son, Molossos, by Andromache. Helenos founded a city in MOLOSSIA, where he settled, and Neoptolemos gave him his mother, Deidameia, as a wife..." There`s nothing more about Helenos in this basic source, sorry. |
| Posted by: Vlad December 11, 2005 | 14:56 GMT |
| P.S. In "Greek Myths" by Robert Graves, there`s chapter 158 p., which the author declares as taken from " Antyklides, cited by the Scholiast to Iliad by Homer, VII.44". Well, in "Iliad" you can find in this place that Helenos was a diviner but the story in Graves`book is much more colourful : - 158 p. - " Among younger children of Hekabe, there were TWINS - Kassandra and Helenos. Under their birthday- celebrated in a sanctuary of Tymbraean Apollo, children got tired and went to sleep in a corner. Their parents, after too much wine, simply forgot about them and went home. When Hekabe returned to the temple looking after them and saw that the sacred snakes were licking their ears, cried out in terror. The snakes vanished at once in a stack of laurel leaves. But from now on both Kassandra and Helenos possessed the gift of prophesying." Another place in "Iliad" about Helenos as a diviner is in Book VI. 76. Still nothing about Helenos visiting Scheria, i.e. Korkyra. |
| Posted by: Cloudsurfer December 11, 2005 | 15:52 GMT |
| Carlos Parada has (as usual) done the job, and done it good: http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Helenus1.html Here's another link http://www.timelessmyths.com/classical/heroes2.html#Helenus linked from http://www.timelessmyths.com/classical/trojanwar.html which is also interesting And this is what wikipedia has - not really that much...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helenus |
| Posted by: Caliadne December 11, 2005 | 16:31 GMT |
| Kassios, I suspect you might be confusing Helenos with Heleios. Heleios was a son of Perseus and Andromeda who joined Amphitryon and Kephalos in their war against the Taphians (who inhabited the islands north of Kephalleneia). Kassiopeia was the maternal grandmother of Heleios. She was the famous Ethiopian queen who bragged that her daughter was more beautiful than the Nereides, condemning her own daughter Andromeda to be sacrificed to a sea-monster. Of course Perseus rescued the princess and carried her back to Greece. One of their many sons was this Prince Heleios. That he should name a temple after his grandmother (Kassiopeia) and grandfather (Zeus) makes sense. Of the famous war expedition against the Taphians: Heleios was usually said to have given his name to Elis (his name was frequently confused with the sun-god Helios, eg as in the parentage of his son King Augeias of Elis). The other important combatant, Kephalos, after the defeated of the Taphians received rulership and gave his name to the island of Kephallenia. He was one of the ancestors of Odysseus. |
| Posted by: Caliadne December 11, 2005 | 16:45 GMT |
| Just to clarify something in my post above: As to the grandfather and grandmother of the Perseid Heleios: Zeus and Kassiopeia. The first was his father's father, the latter his mother's mother. Heleios' paterilinial and matrilinial lines seem to be emphasized in the cult. Maybe there was also some special festival celebrated in honour of Zeus connected with the rising of the constellation Cassiopeia, the hanging queen. This page gives a list of references for info on Heleios in classical literature: http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/1478.html Perhaps one of the sources listed refers to the temple specifically: unless the source you indicate does in fact confuse the names of the obscure Perseid Heleios with the Trojan prince Helenos. Both were associated with the region. |
| Posted by: Vlad December 11, 2005 | 17:12 GMT |
| PS Standard version of Helenos fates ends with his marrying Andromache - after the death of Neoptolemos at the hands of Orestes in Apollo`s temple at Delphi. They had a son - Kestrinos and in this way Helenos was after Neoptolemos the ruler of the Molossi - in the Central Epeiros, just behind Dodone. So much we can find in Pausanias. But other sources maintain that Helenos ruled over Epirotic Chaonia and built there a NEW CITY of TROY. ( Vergilius -"Aeneis", III, 333ff; Ovidius-"Metamorphoses", XIII, 720ff) For Helenos it would perhaps mean that he became both the ruler and chief diviner there. It sounds suspiciously rather like a Camelot of King Arthur, doesn`t it!? I mean only an idealized chthonian oracular place could be called like that. Now, Chaonia lies just opposite NE part of Korkyra (Scheria). His possible visit there had maybe something to do with a founding of an oracle on the island!? It`s only my suspicion; I`m still working on that and support the Helenos track. |
| Posted by: Vlad December 11, 2005 | 18:02 GMT |
| Now, this is the coup-de-grace, I suppose, to the whole problem. Here at my hand I`ve got a booklet "Corfu - the Green Island", published by Dekopoulos-Petroulakis in Athens around 1985. And here I have a very fine photo with a comment : - "Directly facing the Albanian coastline is town Kassiope, where there are remains of a temple to Jupiter..." Kassios, you cannot say to me that a Greek publisher could not tell a Zeus from Jupiter!? So, this temple was built in Roman times, i.e. after 229 BCE - i.e. after the surrender of Demetrius!? And thus, it was not the Kassiopeian Zeus the temple was sacrificed to but only the universal Roman Jupiter!? Of course, the temple was placed in Kassiopeia on the island of Korkyra but you hardly can use the term Kassiopeian Zeus on its deity, without causing a misunderstanding. This term belongs perhaps more rightly to the real Greek Zeus of the synoikismos of Kassiopaians in southern Epiros - their town of Kassiope!! Which of the two Kassiope towns is a mother-town and which its colony!? This I cannot say, without access to local historical sources. It`s up to you, Kassios, If you want to dive deeper into the history of Korfu - Korkyra - Scheria or whatever the island was called in its history!! |
| Posted by: Vlad December 12, 2005 | 9:30 GMT |
| It`s "Aeneid" (Aenais!?) by Vergilius, which gives us the most impressive vision of a "little" new Troy, which was founded by Helenos at the "Chaones`harbour". It was Buthrotum - a fortress near Igoumenitsa of our days. Aeneas approaches a meadow (a chthonian sanctuary!?) at the foothills of the fortress. Andromache is just making an offer to the shadows of Hektor and she thinks it`s just him, who emerges from the mists. How dramatic!! Now, it`s Helenos, in his role as a diviner, who directs Aeneas to Ausonia (Italy) to the place, where Rome - the Great Troy - shall arise. I can imagine myself, that on the basis of lecture of this great book, some local legends later were formed. In this way, Helenos could be later connected to Korkyra. Late Roman and Byzantine local historians are known to compose such derivative legends. In a geological chart of Korkyra I`ve found that town Kassiope lies at the CAPE KASSIOPIS. I`m not a linguistic expert but maybe the name of the town came into being from the name of this promontory. Then, in Southern Epeiros, there`s the central town of the tribe of KASSOPAIANS and its name was KASSOPE(Perseus Project - Classical Sites) not Kassiope. I`m talking all the time about English forms of Greek names. If you could compare them in old Greek, maybe conclusions were different. As an example. Some translators of Aeneis render "pergamos" or "pergamon" as the ally of Romans the capital of the Kingdom of Pergamon in Asia Minor. But IMHO it`s the same word as "pyrgos". All those words mean a "tower" or a "fortress" (!?). So, the "fortress of Illion" would be enough but some translated "Pergamon, the Illian fortress", just in case. |
| Posted by: Kassios December 15, 2005 | 18:32 GMT | ||
| First I would like to thank you all for your replies. After a "wider" search, here is what I came up with: It is a translation of an article from the newspaper "Kassiopeian" (ΚΑΣΣΩΠΙΤΗΣ), which itself is a copy from the Corfiot newspaper "Corfu Today" (ΚΕΡΚΥΡΑ ΣΗΜΕΡΑ). The article is titled: "The Trojans in Corfu and the foundation of the city of Vouthroton.":
The story is very interesting, unfortunately there is no references to it in the article, but I will try to get in contact with the author to find out where he has his information from. Thanks again. |
| Posted by: Stella December 15, 2005 | 19:05 GMT | ||
Wasn't it Paris (Alexandros) and Kassandra (Alexandra) who were the twins of the Priam family?? |
| Posted by: Vlad December 15, 2005 | 21:59 GMT |
| Is this "Polinos" maybe Polyainos, who wrote the book "Strategemata" (War Stratagems) and dedicated it 162 AC to emperors Mark Aurelius and Lucius Verus!? This book has a very good opinion as for its factual value but not for its language. It seems to contain around 900 stories otherwise unknown; partially excerpts from some authors of historical books lost in the course of time. Well, instead of wandering as captive of Neoptolemos through Tessaly and the land of Molossians, Helenos is supposed to have a fleet and own Trojan people around him and sails to Scheria. Well, there was a variant of the story of Helenos, which said that after the fall of Troy he took his mother Hekabe over Hellespont to Chersonessos and there she died and was buried. (Apollodorus, "Epitome", V,23) At this point maybe Helenos started his sailing to Korkyra. Anyway, it seems reasonable to incorporate those "Stratagemata" into my library. Me, such a dove-hearted person...Thanks for the hint, Kassios and good luck in your further inquiry. I wonder if the Korfiote town of Kassiopi and its Zeus`temple is really that old and if any archeological investigations has been ever carried there!? |
| Posted by: Vlad December 16, 2005 | 18:07 GMT |
| Not all had such luck as H.Schliemann, the discoverer of the remains of Troy and the glory of Mykene. As yet, nobody could localize remains of the Phaiakian`s town on Korfu (if it`s Scheria, indeed!?). Among many suggestions, even Kassiopi was proposed - by Dorpfeld before World War I. Victor Berard (1901) pointed to Palaeokastritsa (NW of the island), with its twin ports -Port Alipa and Port St.Spyridon, as topographically most probable location. But only exhaustive excavations was carried out by H.Bulle at Aphiona peninsula at NW coast, which was also one of candidates. There are not any traces of the Mycenaean civilisation on the island. Strabo preserved an ancient tradition that Korkyra was originally inhabited by Illyrian tribes from the Adriatic coasts. This opinion is strengthened by excavated remains analogous to those of Apulia on the Italian mainland. First historical date is 734 BCE - the foundation of Corinthian colony. That time the island was inhabited, according to early writers, by Phaiakians, Colchians(!?), Eretrians( from Euboea) and Liburnians- Illyrian people known for their sailing capabilities, some of whom were expelled by Corinthians. "Kassiopi was a centre of considerable importance during Roman times. Tiberius is said to have had a summer residence there. Emperor Nero, looking for more worthy audience to his "manifold talents", in AD 66 crossed over to Kassiopi and, according to Suetonius, began his theatrical tour by playing and singing before the altar of Jupiter CASSIUS. No traces of the temple remain but its name lives on in that of the modern village." Informations above were taken from the book "Corfu" by Brian Dicks, publ. David a. Charles, 1977, ISBN 0 7153 7311 0. But when I`ve checked in my exemplar of Suetonius "De Vita Caesarum", I`ve found such a note: - " Kassope, a harbour town in Korkyra, with the temple of Zeus Kassios, a hellenized Syrian god, whose main temple was located on Mt.Cassius nearby Antiochia."!!? |
| Posted by: Kassios December 17, 2005 | 10:02 GMT |
| Vlad, I'm impressed, good job. I was going to call the archaeology department of the Ionian University in Corfu at Monday so I could get some information, but now I don't know... :) Strabon, Herodotos, Dionysios Periheget and Plinius are telling us about Casios Zeus (or perhaps Cassios or Kasios), he was worshipped at his great temple on mount Kasion in Egypt (Casius mons). I dont know yet if there is any connection between that and the one in Kassiope. The plaque with the temples history outside of the Virgin Marys church in Kassiopi, mentions that the temple is built on the same area where Kasios Zeus temple used to be, of'course it doesn'n telling us how or why did that hapenned...) :) Indeed, I've been told that in Virgin Marys church in Kassiopi village, you can see parts of Kasios Zeus temple as the big marble beams that actually make the gate doors of the church, a very common usage -because of its strenght- of the material of the ancient Greek temples, after they knocked down by the Christians. (I am sure you are familiar with the issue..) I hope I will know more after the call next week. Thanks a lot. |
| Posted by: Vlad December 17, 2005 | 10:54 GMT |
| Don`t mention it, Kassios. You`ve just wanted to know as much as possible about that little spot on Earth - Kassopi and its whereabouts. And I am just passionately interested in mythical landscapes of Greece, so I did too. And now comes what I assess as maybe controversial. IMHO There was a specific mythical aitiology behind the location of Jupiter/Zeus Kassios`temple in the town of Kassiope in Korkyra. From Apollodoros/Apollodorus - "The Library of Greek Mythology", Book I, chapter 6, "The revolt of Typhon", we know that Zeus drove Typhon out from the proximity of Egypt, whereto other gods fled, until they came to "Mt.Casion, which rises over Syria"and so on... What it has to do with Kassiope!? Well, the last section of the Zeus`hunt after Typhaon goes from Haimon Mts. in Thrakia to Sicily. Maybe the Roman Empire promoted a broader view, when locating its temples. And Polinos/Polyainos retained much older(!?) local aitiological myth for the founding of Bouthroton in Epeiros. What if this short distance Kassiopi-Bouthroton is just a part of that long-range race Mt.Kassios(Syria) - Korykian Cave (Kilikia) - Mt.Nysa (at the core of former realm of the Hittites) - Mts.Haimon - Sicily ...and Zeus followed Typhaon in a shape of a Big Bull thundering the sky!? |
| Posted by: Vlad December 17, 2005 | 12:29 GMT |
| P. S. What about possibility of contamination between Helenos and Hellanios (Zeus) at some stage in the development of the local myth!? |
| Posted by: Vlad December 18, 2005 | 11:13 GMT |
| Now, I`ve tried to find out, what is the common meaning of such local names like Kassope, Kassotis (a spring at Delphi) and Mt.Kassion (or Cassius). Nothing meaningful found in accesible literature, I`d tried my luck in a dictionary of ancient Greek. And here it was - "kassio" - to repair, to plan, scheme or weave. Just the functions, which could be awaited from the headquarters of the Levantine gods - Mt.Kassios(!?) As for "opi", I`ve found that it could carry a meaning of an opening (e.g. of a hub!?), or "looking at sth or sb with fear or reverence" (i.e. from "opizo" or "opizomai"). And there was also "opi" (poetical dativus) - 1. "(about gods) - a vengeance for sins, scourge, visitation", but also - " 2. protection or favour of gods; Providence. IMHO Conclusions are evident. And still, this track of Zeus and Typhoeus to Mt.Haimon in Thrakia and then down to Sicily. IMO It makes sense only when looking out just from Mt.Haimon. Then, astronomical events like the paths of the Sun and the Moon (what about constellations!?) under a year could be described in such mythological terms as Zeus (or Bull - Taurus) following Typhoeus (Snake or Hydra in the sky). And yet, I must mention there are many places in Greece, where those two adversaries exist side by side. In "Theogony" by Hesiod we`ve got Typhaon`s Mountain at Thebes, from which Zeus spies around prior to visiting Alkmene (Herakles`subsequent mother). And second place I know is Typhaon Mt. across Alpheios from Olympia, with Zeus worshipped short distance away (Mt.Lykaon). |
| Posted by: Vlad December 20, 2005 | 8:49 GMT |
| Of course, I could state right away that KASSIOPE means "Oracle" and that Kassiopea was a name for a professional soothsayer, and so on. But it would`t be fair. All what you can do with those different meanings of words "kassio" and "opi" is just to show their SEMANTIC FIELD as a whole. The legend found in Polinos/Poliainos(!?) about a sacrificial bull, which shows to Helenos with his Trojans the right place for founding their city - New Troy; Bouthroton - points of course to a Zeus oracle in the town of Kassiope. But this is only "circumstantial evidence", as it`s called juridically. Now, what can allow to go any further is possible new information Kassios can find locally. I mean, if some new inscriptions or at the least Mykenean remnants were found in Kassiopi, which gave rise to that article in the newspaper, which Kassios became so interested in!? Anyway, "GOD JUL" TO YOU ALL !! |